The following is a translation of an interview published by the leading Spanish daily newspaper ABC by Juan Soto with Robert Amsterdam regarding his work defending taxpayers in Spain from exploitation by the Spanish Tax Authority.
Robert Amsterdam is an American lawyer who has spent years confronting totalitarian regimes that restrict citizens’ freedom. Using the tools of the legal profession, he has fought Tanzania, he has fought Uganda, and his firm is in the process of getting both countries expelled from the Commonwealth. He has defended the religious freedom of Christians in Ukraine and Armenia, despite being Jewish, and he has experienced Russian prisons from the inside, like so many Hebrews before him.
Now he is waging a new international legal battle against a Spanish institution which he considers typical of authoritarian regimes, but which enjoys a very good reputation in our country: the Tax Agency. He has just published Hacienda and the Dual State (Vegueta Ediciones), co-written with Christopher Wales. There he explains the motivations behind his crusade against the only Spanish public institution that functions with the precision of a clock.You use the laws of authoritarian countries to fight the power those states exercise over their citizens.
It’s a difficult but very rewarding position. I can choose the causes I want to fight for. I can work with incredible people. I have a Canadian passport and a U.S. passport, which means I’m not as brave as Ugandans, Russians, or Ukrainians who don’t have those passports. So I dedicate my life to helping my colleagues in those countries, who show incredible courage by risking their lives.
You’ve litigated in terrible countries and now you’re in Spain. What is our problem?
The Tax Agency. You have a country that thinks: “My God, we’re the best in the world!” Well, the way Hacienda operates delegitimises that belief. There are people here who live in fear every day with the certainty that when Hacienda knocks on the door, they have no rights. To begin with, you lose the presumption of innocence.
I think it was the so-called “Beckham law” that first caught your attention.
Yes. Basically, it works like this: you’re a fortunate person and you move to Spain, you bring your family, you build a life here, and in order to stay on good terms with the tax authorities they approve your tax framework—conditions that suit you. Hacienda gives you a certificate. Of course, you think that’s it. And then, years later, they act against you and hit you with penalties and fines.
Put like that, it sounds like a trap by Spain to attract wealth and then squeeze it.
We saw bad faith in Hacienda’s behaviour time and again, and that’s what opened our eyes to the full structural problem, because we couldn’t understand those dirty tricks. But it doesn’t just affect foreigners—it affects all of you. I’ve seen retired police officers trying to earn a bit of extra money and having their car seized. People in psychiatric hospitals having their bank accounts seized. There is a level of cruelty and constant aggressive conduct.
Don’t we have tools to defend ourselves?
Not really. In Spain, under a tax inspection, an individual waits 10 to 15 years to resolve their case in court, assuming they even have a good reason to litigate and don’t give in to Hacienda’s demands. It’s a disgraceful situation. In that sense, Spain is a dual state. There is a Constitution, laws, a judiciary that works, a police force that works—but when it comes to Hacienda, the rule of law disappears.
What is the cause?
An individual receives a fine from an inspector who earns a bonus for issuing it. That’s the cancer. Someone has to pay an exorbitant penalty upfront and live the next ten years of their life without that money or those resources. If they surrender, Hacienda is ready to give them a 30% or 40% discount. Excuse me? That’s called extortion. That’s what the mafia does. First they take everything, then they’re willing to negotiate to take only half. That’s what Hacienda does to its citizens.
Is it like this in other countries?
What happens in Spain is not the same as anywhere else I know. Some elements exist elsewhere, of course, but not this terrible combination.
When did this shift begin?
In 2011, Hacienda separated from the Ministry of Economy. So now, in Spain, the head of Hacienda can only prove their merit by collecting more taxes and bringing in more money. And they are desperate to do so. They over-collect. That is not a positive or healthy sign.
Here many people believe that “we are all Hacienda.”
Anyone who thinks that doesn’t read the press. Revenue collection is at record levels, corruption reaches the sky, and public services are worsening. Are you all Hacienda? It’s funny that people think so highly of Hacienda, when Hacienda thinks so poorly of all its taxpayers. No, gentlemen. Hacienda is broken. And what we say is: fix it. Create a real Taxpayer Bill of Rights. Merge Hacienda back into the Ministry of Economy.
Obvious question: do you defend the rich because you don’t care about the poor who depend on public aid funded by taxes?
Let’s be damn clear. I’ve been divorced three times…
Q: Only three?
Only three.
Congratulations.
Thank you. After three wives and six children, you can withstand any attacks and you’re not financially thriving. So I have no interest in defending only the rich. I have rich clients and poor clients. I represent opposition groups in many African countries for free, and I’ve done so consistently, which has left me in a terrible financial situation. That gives me a lot of power, because there is nothing anyone can take from me.But in Spain many people think taxes mean welfare for the poor.
That’s bullshit. The most important human right is dignity. There is no dignity in benefits. That’s not how you raise your children. When I work in truly poor countries, it is the poorest people who want to be entrepreneurs, who want to build something for their families. Moreover, Hacienda is much harsher on the poor than on the rich, because the poor cannot afford lawyers. Of the 660 people who have contacted us, probably 400 are poor—ruined. They have nothing in their name. So our campaign is for everyone.
Can Hacienda be fixed, or does it need to be dismantled?
It can improve. Merging Hacienda into a Ministry of Economy would change the psychology of this body, which is currently driven by a desire for total predation. And to force that change, inspector bonuses must also be eliminated. Pay inspectors more, but remove the bonuses. Once the bonuses are gone, everything changes. The incentive for that sadism disappears.
Don’t you think the problem is the size of the public sector, especially the political class?
That’s a different issue. There are many people in politics in Spain, and the State is huge. They need a lot of money. Fine. The issue is how you finance a State. This isn’t about tax levels, but about treatment. Bonuses are what poison Hacienda’s culture, turning taxpayers into a mine for inspectors. As long as inspectors receive bonuses, their thinking will never be about justice or fairness, but rather… how much can I make this month?
Why do many Spaniards think Hacienda is on their side?
Spain spends a lot of money on public relations. It leads to the madness of someone believing that, without Hacienda reading your private documents, fraud would skyrocket. No government on Earth thinks worse of its people than the Spanish government. There is also heavy media coverage of alleged fraud by famous figures against Hacienda, and often those frauds are not real. After fighting in court, things are clarified. But who is willing to go that far? Hacienda wants to act before any ruling and uses the psychology of fear.
Are Spanish professionals helping you?
It’s very difficult. I go to terrible countries where people fear for their lives, yet lawyers stand by me and fight with me. No matter the risks. In Spain, I went to see a colleague of thirty years and said: “I’m going after Hacienda. I need help.” And he replied: “Oh no. They could audit me. They could audit my clients.” Fear like I’ve never seen in my life. In Spain, a member of the EU. You need to wake up.
You warn it will get worse soon, with artificial intelligence.
Yes. The level of control will be absolute. Pedro Sánchez wrapped himself in human rights and said he wouldn’t trade with Israel. Well, he’s going to buy artificial intelligence technology from them for taxpayer surveillance. You have elections next year and it’s a moment for structural change in Hacienda and its trajectory. Be careful. Don’t listen to those who talk about a tax nightmare and say “we’re going to lower taxes.” Don’t fall for that. It’s not about lowering taxes. It’s about changing the structure and allowing you to fight against a humane Hacienda that does not treat you as criminals without evidence.