The following is an automatic translation of an interview with Robert Amsterdam conducted by the publication Confilegal.
Robert Amsterdam , managing partner of Amsterdam & Partners LLP , is no ordinary lawyer. He’s a free-for-all, a Canadian jurist with offices in London and Washington, who has defended businesspeople persecuted by authoritarian regimes and political opponents in Russia, Nigeria, and Venezuela; he has defeated giants like Apple; and he has taken the UN itself to court.
Now he’s turned his attention to Spain, where he’s leading a legal and media offensive against the Tax Agency.
“Spain is at war against its own citizens, and the Treasury is the army,” he states emphatically, but refuses to reveal who his clients are and the law firms that assist him in Spain. Because, he says, if his identity were known, the Tax Agency “would fall on them.”
In this interview, the lawyer accuses the agency of acting like a “Big Brother prosecutor,” denounces its lack of transparency, and warns that the country is experiencing a silent erosion of the rule of law.
“In two years, no one will recognize this institution if it isn’t reformed. Artificial intelligence will change everything… for the worse,” he warns.
But his criticism goes beyond the technical: he speaks of fear, of broken marriages, of suicides, of a system that—according to him—savages the most vulnerable while protecting itself behind a wall of impunity. “This isn’t just a Spanish problem, it’s a European scandal,” he concludes.
And he’s willing to take it to all international forums. Because, he asserts, there are still battles worth fighting. Even if no one else dares.
Who is Robert Amsterdam and what does his law firm do?
For the past 50 years, we’ve been involved in cases with a strong political component. We’ve been heavily involved in Central and Latin America. We’ve handled major cases in Venezuela, Brazil, Guatemala, and also, of course, in the United States and Canada. As you probably already know, if you’ve looked us up, we participated in the Bangkok uprising in 2010.
Today we’re working on the case you’re familiar with here in Spain. We also represent the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Ukraine. We’re working on cases related to the Congo and key players in the future of Iraq. In fact, in a few hours we’ll be holding a press conference in Baghdad on Kurdistan and the conflict between the Kurds, the Iraqi central government, and Iran.These are the conclusions of the British law firm that will sue the Treasury: violations, ignorance, and lack of transparency.
No relationship with Donald Trump?
[Laughs] Nothing.
Why have you filed this case against the Spanish Tax Agency?
I wouldn’t say that, at this point, we’re against the Tax Agency as such. What we want is to reform it. The Tax Agency isn’t an independent entity; it’s part of the government. And this government, at least in theory, is a democratic government.
But this agency doesn’t act as if it were part of a democratic government. It behaves as if it belonged to a fascist regime or a dictatorship. It has excessive power. What I’ve seen is truly alarming.
I’m speaking with this force because in two years, we won’t recognize it anymore, because of artificial intelligence. They’re going to invade every aspect of our citizens’ lives.
Many people here aren’t aware of this. If you haven’t been audited directly, if you’re not one of the many victims who contact me daily, you may not have felt the damage yet. But wait until this Agency, without any restraint, starts controlling artificial intelligence: no one in Spain will be safe.
“They want to be Big Brother and justify it by saying it’s to combat fraud.”
Are you suggesting that the Spanish Tax Agency wants to be like Big Brother?
Exactly. That’s exactly what they want to be. If you listen to those in charge, they say it openly. There are statements in which they claim to check everyone’s social media to know what they’re doing.
They want to be Big Brother and justify it by saying it’s to combat fraud. But, for me, they are the real fraud. They are much more dangerous than any tax evader, because we are in a country where there isn’t even a fixed tax rate. They say the tax rate in Spain is 47%, but that’s a lie. The real tax is whatever the Treasury can take from you.
There are no limits. We received a message from a carpenter who nearly lost his marriage and is suicidal because he’s been deprived of €43,000 in recent years.
He’s been working here for 23 years. They’re relentless with the poor. They say they’re going after rich foreigners, but it’s a lie. They persecute the poor, even people in psychiatric wards.
They have no morals. Their salaries have been cut, and they now have a bonus system that the government maintains as a secret weapon.
Neither the Iranian secret services nor the Mossad could penetrate the Spanish government to discover what this damned bonus consists of. It’s the best-kept secret because they don’t want anyone to know how these people are motivated to squeeze the citizens.
What do you consider incompatible with the rule of law?
For a true rule of law to exist, there must be something fundamental: the presumption of innocence. But in this country, it’s an inversion of the presumption of innocence. Here, there is a rule that, in practice, says that everything determined by a tax inspector is automatically true.
And the reverse presumption means that the presumption of innocence is completely eliminated.
Added to this are inspectors motivated by financial incentives, a rule requiring full payment of the debt before appeal, and a system of administrative tribunals that, according to several European court rulings, cannot even be considered real courts.
This process can take three to five years, during which the person is suffocated by disproportionate sanctions.
No other European country applies fines like the ones we do here: if you make a mistake by even one euro, you can receive an additional penalty of 50 to 75% of everything you paid. It’s a completely unique system—in the worst sense.
Many Spaniards ask me: “But isn’t this normal?” And the answer is no. No country in Europe has this toxic combination. Perhaps in other countries there are some kind of bonus for inspectors, but there are also oversight mechanisms: you can appeal quickly, there are checks and balances. In Spain, there are many controls… but no balance.
What is your opinion on the Tax Agency’s annual rule that publishes the names of the country’s largest debtors?
First, many of these so-called “major debtors” don’t even have a debt confirmed by a court. Second, it’s true that Spain isn’t the only country doing this; some Scandinavian countries also publish similar lists.
But in the Spanish case, this publication of the main debtors is part of a much more aggressive arsenal of tools. It’s not just about making the debt public. They also seize bank accounts, contact your clients to seize the money they owe you, and even, in some cases, end up stifling companies until they disappear.
In almost every country where I’ve worked, like England, authorities try to keep businesses running, because they understand that a living business continues to generate revenue… and pay taxes.
But in Spain, the opposite mentality seems to exist: if they destroy one company, another will come along. It’s an open war against the business community, led by the Treasury.
“No other European country has fines like the ones we have here: if you make a mistake by even one euro, you can receive an additional penalty of 50 to 75% on everything you’ve paid. It’s a completely unique system—in the worst way.”
There’s no clear ideology behind this, beyond a kind of bureaucratic class struggle. And that comes at an enormous cost: even young businesses are being strangled.
I’ve seen recent cases where companies lost large tax deductions simply because the relevant agency didn’t validate their tax credits in a timely manner. This forced them to lay off their entire workforce.
And to top it all off, the only industry they have left—tourism—is under attack from within: citizens shooting tourists with water pistols.
You’d have to walk through the center of Madrid or Barcelona and you’d understand a lot of what’s going on.
Why don’t they develop their technology sector? Why don’t they strengthen their entrepreneurial class? Their best entrepreneurs are leaving. Their celebrities are also forced to flee, either to Andorra or wherever they can, because this is a country that doesn’t celebrate its public figures: it puts them in jail, accuses them of crimes.
Spain is unique in that regard. Here, even people who do their jobs well, like Messi, Shakira , and football club executives… the government destroys them.
Well, Xavi Alonso, the Real Madrid coach, won.
Yes, he won. After many years. He’s the exception. After many years of struggle. God bless him.
Even the lawyers here, my friends, are afraid to talk to me. They’re afraid because they say, “If we help you…”
Is no one cooperating with you?
Yes, there are a few brave ones, but I won’t name names. What I can say is that many law firms have turned me away.
Some are lifelong friends of mine. In one particular case, friends of 40 years—I knew the grandfather—they told me: “If we work with you, they audit us. They audit our clients. Please leave through the back door.”
Who are your clients? Because it doesn’t seem like you got into this solely out of idealism or love for the cause.
I’ll tell you that I’ve dedicated a large part of my life to idealism. We represent many opposition groups in Africa for free, pro bono . This case, fortunately, isn’t pro bono : we’re being paid by several people. I would never reveal their names, because God knows what the Treasury could do to them.
Yes, we’re getting paid, but to be honest, no one could truly compensate for the time and effort my firm is investing in this. So yes, we’re getting paid, but we’re also investing a lot, because if you read the messages we receive every day, you’d understand why we’re so committed.
I call it “the dialectic of ignorance.” Outside of Spain, no one knows what’s going on here. Wealthy people from the UK are moving to Spain without knowing it. Everyone seems happy.
But within Spain, most people don’t understand how serious the situation is. I always use the metaphor of a frog in boiling water: no one realizes how bad everything is because the change in temperature has been gradual. And when you talk to people, they often say, “Isn’t it like this everywhere?” And no, it isn’t. The population needs to be educated. Spain is unique in this regard.
Have you tried to meet with the Tax Agency?
Of course. Every time we return to Spain, we ask to meet with the Tax Agency. We send them detailed written questions, such as: How do they pay the inspectors? How do they incentivize the technicians who perform the appraisals?
Instead of responding, they sent a childish letter to their own employees saying, “Stay strong. We’re under attack, but stand your ground.”
This is not good for the rule of law or for democracy. The right thing to do would have been for them to simply respond transparently when we wrote to them with questions: “This is how we pay our civil servants.”
If they have a bonus system, they should explain it openly. But if they treat it like a nuclear secret, that already tells you they know they’re doing something wrong.
Many of my colleagues think you’re crazy. Are you?
They think I’m crazy because no one in Spain would dare to do something like that.
No one would take on the Treasury. Everyone has told me that. Even good friends of mine have told me, “You’ll never have a client in Spain again.” To which I sincerely reply: fine, thank you. We can move forward with or without Spain.
What is happening in Spain will become intolerable for everyone in a few years if this organization—within the government—continues to act in a manner that disrespects the rule of law and is not worthy of a democracy.
“Every time we return to Spain, we ask to meet with the Tax Agency. We send them detailed written questions, such as: How do they pay the inspectors? How do they incentivize the technicians who perform the appraisals?”
How do you respond to those who criticize your participation as foreign interference in Spain’s internal affairs?
Well, I actually find it quite curious. Today, there are millions of people protesting all over the world about Gaza, about this or that. We live in a completely globalized world. The debate about “foreign interference” is over.
The flag of nationalism is sometimes waved as an argument, but I have news for Spain: Spain is part of the European Union. And as such, it has an obligation to respect what are called “European values.”
At this moment, it isn’t doing so. It’s committing serious violations of the rule of law and openly discriminating against foreigners. Therefore, this isn’t just a Spanish problem: it’s a European problem.
Spain must understand that, when it joined the EU to enjoy its benefits, it also assumed certain responsibilities. By adopting its Constitution, it also assumed legal commitments.
Members of the Treasury are constitutionally responsible for numerous irregularities, including a lack of transparency regarding the bonuses they receive.
Courageous Spanish citizens can stand up to these inspectors. They don’t have to sit back and let themselves be chased. They can stand up to them. And the good news is that when they do, they win.
You have alluded a lot to the lack of transparency…
There’s a recent report, prepared by tax lawyers, which—albeit in a more moderate tone—confirms point by point what we’re saying: that the lack of transparency is absurd, that the lack of oversight over inspectors is a violation of the rule of law.
And, what’s more, when citizens manage to endure all the years of artificial administrative courts and finally make it to a real court, they win 60% of the time.
The problem is that before you get to that point, they’ve already strangled you: they force you to pay upfront, they pressure you with criminal charges—which they can file against anyone—and they also use a concept called simulation .
Spain has given this term a new meaning. In countries like Guatemala, simulation means fraud. In Spain, it means that you complied so rigorously that the inspector, obsessed with finding fraud, interprets that you complied “too much” and, therefore, can presume fraud.
I’ve seen some of the most absurd court decisions of my career here.
Are you planning to sue the Spanish Tax Agency?
We represent several people who are facing off against the IRS. As a result, we’ll be in court.
Not me personally, but our cases. We will be involved in every possible court, because this is not just a Spanish problem, it’s a European problem. It’s a situation that calls for the intervention of the European Court of Human Rights .
There will be lawsuits—in fact, there already are. But I won’t publicly identify them until it’s in the clients’ best interest to do so.
Let me tell you the real underlying problem: when an inspector makes a mistake, there are no consequences for him. That’s corruption. There’s no other way to describe it.
How can a public official be allowed to act with total impunity? That, of course, isn’t in the Spanish Constitution. I don’t know what they think they’re doing, but this is corruption.
Now, I know that in Spain, saying “corruption” doesn’t have as much impact, because many elected officials are indicted or under investigation. But in many other countries, that would be an extremely serious accusation.
Mr. Amsterdam, why do you think Spain is committing systematic human rights violations through its tax system?
There’s a whole list of reasons. First, abuses related to information management. Second, the excessive use of their power to seize bank accounts and act without any judicial intervention. Third, the lack of a real and effective right of appeal.
You can be treated extremely harshly by these inspectors, who are motivated by the idea of taking money from you. And if you can’t pay the full amount, you lose. That’s a human rights violation.
I’m not saying the police are out on the streets beating people, but if I read the messages I receive every day—people on the verge of suicide, broken marriages—I’d see that these are also human rights violations. And it happens every day.
Then there’s fear. The fear of the Treasury that exists among lawyers, professionals, accountants, and even journalists. I don’t know if you saw it, but we published important information in the form of advertorials in three newspapers. We did so because several major media outlets refused to publish the content.
In what democracy does that happen? The refusal to publish relevant information. These media outlets simply felt that, in the current climate, they couldn’t afford to do so. That’s not a good sign for a healthy, functioning democracy.
What type of structural reform do you consider essential to guarantee the fiscal justice that we should strive for, in your opinion?
To achieve tax justice, a comprehensive and profound reform of the Treasury is necessary. And by that, I mean, for example, that I am a firm believer in better pay for auditors.
You can’t have people on low salaries and then expect them not to come into conflict with the public. Pay them a decent wage, so they won’t be motivated by the need to collect revenue at all costs. That’s the first step.
Second, the presumption in favor of the Treasury must be eliminated. The Treasury must be the one responsible for proving what it is owed, and not simply sending a hundred-page questionnaire to the citizen and, if they make a mistake, automatically sanctioning them. There is an asymmetry of power, and that must be corrected.
We must restore the presumption of innocence. We must once again treat people as citizens. Just look at the Granada Declaration, signed on November 27, 2014, by the European Affairs Ministers of the European Union member states during an informal meeting.
The main objective of that declaration was to strengthen the commitment of the Member States to the fundamental values of the European Union,
It wasn’t written by a foreigner; it was drafted by Spanish experts. And yet, nothing has been done since then. Well, yes: 47 tax increases have been approved, and control over the population has been tightened and strengthened.
“I can’t tell Spain what exact model it should adopt, but I can say that the starting point should be a system that complies with its own Constitution. That means eliminating the presumption in favor of inspectors, allowing citizens to appeal without having to pay the entire debt upfront, and reforming the courts to make them truly independent.”
Mr. Amsterdam, what are you specifically seeking: a conviction or a more profound cultural change?
The truth is, I hope to achieve both. I hope for political change. I trust that, if the topic is allowed to be discussed, some political group will dare to embrace tax reform as part of its platform. That’s my wish.
Furthermore, we’re going to use trade. The press is reporting today that the United States has a very powerful law that penalizes countries that apply discriminatory taxes.
We will also file a complaint with the European Commission. That is, we will use all the legal and legitimate instruments at our disposal to try to achieve change.
Do you plan to appeal to the World Trade Organization, the United Nations, the Spanish institutions, the European Commission, or the European Court of Human Rights?
We’re going to all of them. In the case of the WTO, we believe this constitutes a violation of the GATS, the General Agreement on Trade in Services, and we’re already preparing a report on it. Yes, we’ll go wherever necessary if that helps achieve justice in relation to the Treasury.
My hope is that the first thing that changes is the bonus system. The more attention that’s focused on that system, the harder it will be to sustain.
No democracy can allow something like this to continue. When something so clearly corrupt is exposed, it has to change. We don’t want to wait years for that to happen. There’s no way to justify that incentive system.
What can Spain learn from other tax system models?
Look, there are many different tax models. Chris Wales , who wrote much of the report, is one of the world’s leading experts on tax systems. His opinion—which I share—is that each country needs a tax system tailored to its circumstances.
I can’t tell Spain what exact model it should adopt, but I can say that the starting point should be a system that complies with its own Constitution. That means eliminating the presumption in favor of inspectors, allowing citizens to appeal without having to pay the entire debt upfront, and reforming the courts to make them truly independent.
With just those changes, we’d already be halfway there. They’re simple reforms.
Are you going to present the second part of the report in September? Can you give us any details?
Yes. We’re going to present what we’ve called the Madrid Memorandum , which we announced in the press over the weekend. It will be a much more detailed analysis of issues like privacy.
We will also contact the OECD to argue that Spain is an outlier, and that other countries should not share tax information with Spain until its system improves.
We’ll do the same with various data-sharing agencies. We’re looking forward to a very busy summer, and we’ll be back in September to present all of this in detail.
One last question: how many people work in your law firm?
Very few. For major cases, we form virtual teams. We have lawyers in Brussels, Washington…
Also in Spain?
Yes. So, in this specific case, we’re probably talking about a virtual team of 20 to 25 lawyers.
You haven’t told me who your clients are in Spain, but it’s clear that to get involved in a case like this, they have to pay well…
I totally agree: you need a good, well-paying client. But I’ll tell you something. When I took on the case against the United Nations 10 years ago, we didn’t have any well-paying clients. And we faced the UN in a battle that was even more disproportionate than this one, like David versus Goliath.
It all started with a humble man who told me that the United Nations had conspired with Robert Mugabe , and that it had ruined his life, destroyed his health… he had a collapse, a heart attack, and he asked me to take his case. And, in all sincerity, I agreed—probably without giving it much thought.
We had to take on the entire UN structure to prove they had conspired with Mugabe, who was already an absolutely terrifying figure. We assembled a whole team, pro bono , at my own expense. I conducted the trial myself for six weeks.
And we won. We secured sanctions for two undersecretaries-general, and we proved that the UN had collaborated with Mugabe.
That’s why I always say we’re no strangers to taking on giants. We took on Russia in the Khodorkovsky case, and at least we got him out alive, which is quite an achievement if you come from a Russian prison.
And in the case of Congo, we’re up against Apple, a company valued in the trillions, and just days after the lawsuit, they stopped exporting from Rwanda.
So yes, sometimes David can stop Goliath.